I see Terry Jones did not burn his korans after all. I think on balance that was right, though I have some reservations. On principle I think that burning books as a concept is disturbing, from nazi Germany to Fahrenheit 451. On the other hand it was being used as an example of freedom of expression, of which I totally approve even if I disagree with, or am offended by what is being expressed.
His motivation, "my god is better than your god" was childish and provocative but the reaction he got in some Moslem countries was monstrously excessive and ridiculous. It is clear that many in these countries, with their hysterical demands for Jones' arrest and punishment, do not understand the essential freedoms enjoyed by the citizens of western democracies. Nor do they understand the restraints placed on democratic governments. Jones was not proposing to do anything illegal, and was simply going to destroy what was his own property.
I confess to a sense of bemusement seeing the hatred and vitriol exchanged between the exponents of two different views as to the nature of the great fairy at the bottom of the garden. My bemusement is tempered with despair that there are people who would be happy to kill for the sake of their delusions.
In the end I think he should not have received the publicity he has. He should have been ignored completely and allowed to burn whatever he wanted that was his to burn. Be it a koran, a bible or the latest Jeffrey Archer. He should have been left in his obscurity and nobody should have taken any notice.
They just gravitate to me, I guess
9 hours ago
People have missed the elephant in the room - religion. Unfortunately we have already caved in, as evidenced by Southpark being censored when they tried to portray the phrophet mohammed
ReplyDelete"He should have been ignored completely and allowed to burn whatever he wanted that was his to burn."
ReplyDeleteCan I choose to burn most CG, TA and public health guidance from NICE then, please? That's the pernicious new religion within health echelons in my corner, insidiously eroding thinking and common sense.
"the reaction he got in some Moslem countries was monstrously excessive and ridiculous."
ReplyDeleteSo, they don't have the right to freedom of speech like you do? You can say and do what you like and when there is a reaction, it's monstrously excessive, ridiculous and hysterical? That's despite you being fully aware that those who react in this fashion are poor, simple and perhaps mostly uneducated people whose only earthly position is their faith and the hope of a better life with him up there!
"It is clear that many in these countries, with their hysterical demands for Jones' arrest and punishment, do not understand the essential freedoms enjoyed by the citizens of western democracies. Nor do they understand the restraints placed on democratic governments."
Are you contradicting yourself here? Found the dilemma after making the judgement/ How fair is that?!
But, yes they don't, they haven't got the luxuries, but live under mostly oppressive and corrupted rulers who would steal even that lone piece of bread from their mouth, if any, to get rich themselves! Faith is their only hope. You want to hit them in that too?! How spoilt of you!
Religious faith! You can denounce it, I can doubt it, but they can't 'afford' to be without "the great fairy at the bottom of the garden", it's all they have!
ReplyDeleteSo maybe then if you show some courtsey and understanding, you can peacefully continue with your bemused way of life, because that's all they want from you, a bit of understanding and a bit of respect; live and let live - peacefully.
"So, they don't have the right to freedom of speech like you do? "
ReplyDeleteAnon.
I did not say that. I am not calling for them to be silenced. As far as I am concerned they are perfectly at liberty to voice their disagreement in any peaceful manner, but demanding death is not freedom of expression. Hate speech and incitement to violence are illegal, even in this country and excluded from article 10.
I have no respect whatsoever for those whose answer to disagreement and criticism is to demand murder. That is what I meant by excessive.
2nd anon
That is not all they want. They want my silence, and if they can't have it they want my blood.
I have no interest in taking anyone's faith away. If people can not function without this prop that is up to them. But they have no right to my respect or silence.
Fahrenheit 451. Great read.
ReplyDelete"I am not calling for them to be silenced."
ReplyDeleteBut I am, because I too was born into a bemused life, and, like you, I too wouldn't want to lose that.
However, I wouldn't want them silent as in being oppressed, only I can do nothing about that, nor can I fix the whole world and make it fair. What people like myself try to do is to help those suffering be a bit more 'content' with the little they have, just by simple gestures like 'respecting their dignity' and being charitable when we can, that's all, and they do appreciate you for that. I am no mother Teresa but I do my best in this regard.
As for religion, don't forget, the unfairness of distribution of wealth was always there, but god never sent help to the rich, but always to the oppressed and needy (!) Without this 'promise' of a better after life, what is there to stop those needy from rising to get what they miss by force? What will be the consequence of that?! So you'll find that those who turn to religion are the helpless and that there is always strong corrolation between the rise of social injustice and religeous belief.
Then again, the majority of those living under such oppressive conditions are people who are preoccupied with how to put food on their table, they, because of their religious belief, are peaceful and accepting of their fate. Those you see rising and chanting are the few, but then again most chant then go home to bed and that's it.
What is dangerous are the few of the few who are criminals anyway and can influence needy others, who, because of their simple minds become criminalised too thinking it is heroic to be so. The group then set their own targets including killing their own and they have killed a lot. Don't forget that Muslims too died in September 11 and other places across the globe, even presidents were assassinated too, remember Anwar Sadat? But to those this was justified because of their wrong perception that everybody with a bit of privalage is corrupt and is is either robbing them or is a traitor, which is not 'always' true.
Two very different groups; the fanatics, who are the very few, and those need to be caught and punished because they are criminals, and the peaceful majority, and those need to be respected and helped with a bit of charity when you can. Then the world can live in peace.
"I too was born into a bemused life"
ReplyDeleteI think I should correct that to say 'relatively' privilaged and not privilaged as what privilage means today.
"As for religion, don't forget, the unfairness of distribution of wealth was always there, but god never sent help to the rich, but always to the oppressed and needy" - Er, when? When did god ever help the lives of the oppressed and needy? In fact, when did god ever interfere in anything? Holocaust? Rwanda? Bosnia? China? Pakistan? Pick your genocide or natural disaster where was god?
ReplyDeleteI was watching the recent program on television about hurricane Katrina - my irony meter broke when the survivors who had sheltered in the New Orleans superdome were asked to thank god for their survival and they all started praying, never for one second considering that if he existed then perhaps he sent Katrina in the first place.
The promise of a better life has been used for centuries to keep the masses in their place and ensure that the ruling classes stay just that.
The peaceful majority need to be educated not patted on the head and told to be good and thrown a few scraps from the rich mans table. THEN the world can live in peace!
"The peaceful majority need to be educated not patted on the head and told to be good and thrown a few scraps from the rich mans table. THEN the world can live in peace! "
ReplyDeleteOk, but until we do that, we just need to take care of each other a bit better, and as you say, then work 'together' towards peace
:-)