Friday, 7 November 2014

Remembrance again

I've had a little criticism over that last post which I'll answer here.

Firstly Snow doesn't mention the simple act of buying a poppy. His comments are purely aimed at what he describes as the "religious dominance" of the ceremony of remembrance at the Cenotaph. If HC doesn't see that that is the case then she has to be a little imperceptive. The entire ceremony is pretty much (christian) religious, and this means that those who wish to show their respects by participating are forced to engage in this superstitious ritual whatever they may believe. A secular ceremony would exclude no-one.

DZ attended a funeral a few years ago for a man who had participated in one of the most famous actions of the second world war. The christian priest who officiated spoke for 28 minutes. 90 seconds of that was about the deceased. The rest of the time was spent pushing his religion. More than a little bit naff and grim I think. Hijacking the funeral of a good man (who I knew was not religious) to push his own agenda.

As a matter of interest HC, have you ever served in the armed forces, regular or reserve?


  1. The poppy has been devalued into a pointless bit of decoration, celebrities vie with each other to wear the most bejewelled bit of frippery available. Newsreaders are castigated for not wearing one. Should we wear a green poppy, a red poppy, a white poppy? Poppies with leaves (England) or without leaves (Scotland)? It has become the part of our sentimentalist culture - "look at me, I care".

    My family never buy poppies because my grandfather fought in the First World War. Afterwards if someone came to his house wearing a poppy he would rip it off and throw into the fire. Why? Because they were administered by the Earl Haig fund and he hated Haig with a passion. He blamed Haig for the thousands of men who died on the battlefields unnecessarily. So in respect to a man who was there we do not wear poppies.

    I agree with you DZ (and Dan Snow), it is a secular memorial and if we allow the C of E to do its service it takes away from all the C of S, the Catholics, the Jews, the Muslims, the Hindus and yes the atheists who have all fought and died.

  2. Thank you for a rather interesting reply to my comment Dr Z.

    Whether Snow did or did not – he didn’t – mention the simple act of buying a poppy is irrelevant. Buying a poppy is my simple act of honouring those whose lives were taken stolen in the pursuit of a pointless war, and indeed of those in wars that have followed, whether of the armed services or civilian causalities’. War is a terrible thing, yet something mankind – and yes it is mostly man kind who instigate such a terrible thing – does rather well.

    And I will honour those poor souls who were/are cannon fodder in the pursuit goal of some oft unattainable prize of those who would preside over us.

    Despite its title of The National Service of Remembrance at the Cenotaph - it is a ceremony and not a ‘service’. Although it is true that representatives of all/most religions are represented there – it is not a religious service.

    Perhaps you and Dan Snow are right in that there should be a secular representative – but I worry that this is ambush tactics by the National Secular Society in pursuit of their own prize.
    “Yet for many of us in today’s Britain, this important ceremony is diminished by the dominance of a religion that fewer and fewer people follow. An Anglican bishop presides over a portion of the ceremony. His fellow imams, priests, patriarchs and primates stand by like also-rans and there is no sign of a secular representative.”

    I would like to know who this ‘many’ are – for me, having secular ‘beliefs’ are not one of them. As said, I do not see a dominance of a religion that fewer and fewer people follow.” What concerns me most is that many folk do not give a shit, because they do not give a shit. They have removed themselves from our past because they do not give a damn. How can the war dead be more important than the vacuous little worlds of celebrities’ twitteries and the ‘I’m alright Jacks’’?

    What dumb little entities we have become, squabbling over who should preside over ceremonies’ to commemorate the war dead. (I am (almost) certain you have mentioned ‘Idiocracy’ in a past post Dr Z – we are getting there…)

    As to whether I have served in the armed forces, regular or reserve – no I haven’t, and I wonder what purpose this question (asked) serves? Please inform.

    You might like to read this:

    I leave with Dan Snows words: If people switch off, they will forget. And when we forget, we repeat.

    Yes we do.

    Peace Dr Z.

    Anna :o]